48 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1999, Canada

Journals of the Senate

2nd Session, 36th Parliament

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Issue 19

Thursday, December 9, 1999
2:00 p.m.

The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker

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The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Bacon, Beaudoin, Berntson, Boudreau, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Ghitter, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kelly, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Perry (Poirier), Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Rivest, Roberge, Robertson, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, St. Germain, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Wilson

The Members in attendance to business were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Bacon, Beaudoin, Berntson, Boudreau, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Ghitter, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kelly, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Perry (Poirier), Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Rivest, Roberge, Robertson, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, St. Germain, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Wilson

PRAYERS

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

Some Honourable Senators made statements.

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Tabling of Documents

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Robertson tabled the following:

Document entitled: "A Senator's Guide To Disability". -Sessional Paper No. 2/36-193S.

Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees

The Honourable Senator Pépin tabled the following (Sessional Paper No. 2/36-194S):

THURSDAY, December 9, 1999

The Special Joint Committee to amend Section 93 of the 1867 Constitution Act concerning the Quebec School System, which was authorized by the Senate to incur expenses for the purpose of its study of Section 93 of the 1867 Constitution Act concerning the Quebec School System, reports pursuant to Rule 104, that the expenses incurred by the Committee during the First Session of the Thirty-sixth Parliament are as follows:

 

Professional Services	$ 5,682.48
Transportation	4,219.15
(including witnesses expenses)
Other Expenditures	301.73
TOTAL	$ 10,203.36

Your Committee held 18 meetings, during which it heard 143 witnesses. The Committee issued its report on November 7, 1997.

Respectfully submitted,

LUCIE PÉPIN

The Honourable Senator Bacon presented the following:

THURSDAY, December 9, 1999

The Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications has the honour to present its

SECOND REPORT

Your Committee, which was authorized on October 14, 1999, to examine and report pursuant to subsection 47(5) of the Canada Transportation Act, the order laid before this Chamber on September 14, 1999, authorizing certain major air carriers and persons to negotiate and enter into any conditional agreement, now presents its final report which is appended to this report.

Respectfully submitted,

LISE BACON

Chair

(The appendix to the report is printed as an Appendix)

The Honourable Senator Bacon moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ferretti Barth, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. The Honourable Senator Stollery, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs, presented its Fifth Report (Bill C-4, An Act to implement the Agreement among the Government of Canada, Governments of Member States of the European Space Agency, the Government of Japan, the Government of the Russian Federation, and the Government of the United States of America concerning Cooperation on the Civil International Space Station and to make related amendments to other Acts) without amendment.

The Honourable Senator Stollery moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pearson, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. The Honourable Senator Stollery, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs, presented its Sixth Report (Bill S-3, An Act to implement an agreement, conventions and protocols between Canada and Kyrgyzstan, Lebanon, Algeria, Bulgaria, Portugal, Uzbekistan, Jordan, Japan and Luxembourg for the avoidance of double taxation and the prevention of fiscal evasion with respect to taxes on income) without amendment.

The Honourable Senator Stollery moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fitzpatrick, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., presented the following:

THURSDAY, December 9, 1999

The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration has the honour to present its

SECOND REPORT

Your Committee is presently undertaking a review of the budgetary situation pertaining to Senate Committees.

Your Committee therefore recommends that, notwithstanding the Procedural Guidelines for the Financial Operation of Senate Committee, for any committee budget for the financial year 1999-2000 submitted to and approved by the Internal Economy Committee, your Committee be authorized to release no more than 6/12 of those approved funds until February 10, 2000.

The two exceptions to this recommendation are: i) the budget submitted by the Transport and Communications Committee concerning its review of the order under section 47(5) of the Canada Transportation Act, for the amount of $19,900; and ii) the budget submitted by the Aboriginal Peoples Committee concerning its study on Aboriginal Self Governance, for the amount of $14,750.

Respectfully submitted,

WILLIAM ROMPKEY

Chair

The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Finnerty, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. The Honourable Senator Hervieux-Payette, P.C., presented the following:

THURSDAY, December 9, 1999

The Standing Joint Committee for the Scrutiny of Regulations has the honour to present its

FIRST REPORT

Your Committee reports that in relation to its permanent reference, section 19 of the Statutory Instruments Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. S-22, the Committee was previously empowered "to study the means by which Parliament can better oversee the government regulatory process and in particular to enquire into and report upon:

1. the appropriate principles and practices to be observed

(a) in the drafting of powers enabling delegates of Parliament to make subordinate laws;

(b) in the enactment of statutory instruments;

(c) in the use of executive regulation - including delegated powers and subordinate laws;

and the manner in which Parliamentary control should be effected in respect of the same;

2. the role, functions and powers of the Standing Joint Committee for the Scrutiny of Regulations."

Your Committee recommends that the same order of reference together with the evidence adduced thereon during the last six Parliaments be again referred to it.

Your Committee informs both Houses of Parliament that the criteria it will use for the review and scrutiny of statutory instruments are the following:

Whether any Regulation or other statutory instrument within its terms of reference, in the judgement of the Committee:

1. is not authorized by the terms of the enabling legislation or has not complied with any condition set forth in the legislation;

2. is not in conformity with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms or the Canadian Bill of Rights;

3. purports to have retroactive effect without express authority having been provided for in the enabling legislation;

4. imposes a charge on the public revenues or requires payment to be made to the Crown or to any other authority, or prescribes the amount of any such charge or payment, without express authority having been provided for in the enabling legislation;

5. imposes a fine, imprisonment or other penalty without express authority having been provided for in the enabling legislation;

6. tends directly or indirectly to exclude the jurisdiction of the courts without express authority having been provided for in the enabling legislation;

7. has not complied with the Statutory Instruments Act with respect to transmission, registration or publication;

8. appears for any reason to infringe the rule of law;

9. trespasses unduly on rights and liberties;

10. makes the rights and liberties of the person unduly dependent on administrative discretion or is not consistent with the rules of natural justice;

11. makes some unusual or unexpected use of the powers conferred by the enabling legislation;

12. amounts to the exercise of a substantive legislative power properly the subject of direct parliamentary enactment;

13. is defective in its drafting or for any other reason requires elucidation as to its form or purport.

Your Committee recommends that its quorum be fixed at 4 members, provided that both Houses are represented whenever a vote, resolution or other decision is taken, and that the Joint Chairmen be authorized to hold meetings to receive evidence and authorize the printing thereof so long as 3 members are present, provided that both Houses are represented; and, that the Committee have power to engage the services of such expert staff, and such stenographic and clerical staff as may be required.

Your Committee further recommends to the Senate that it be empowered to sit during sittings and adjournments of the Senate.

Your Committee, which was also authorized by the Senate to incur expenses in connection with its permanent reference relating to the review and scrutiny of statutory instruments, reports, pursuant to Rule 104 of the Rules of the Senate, that the expenses of the Committee (Senate portion) during the First Session of the Thirty-sixth Parliament were as follows:

Professional Services     $ 100,081.49

Transportation     15,662.44

Other, Miscellaneous     58,024.29

Total     $ 173,768.22

A copy of the relevant Minutes of Proceedings and Evidence (Issue No. 1, Second Session, Thirty-sixth Parliament) is tabled in the House of Commons.

Respectfully submitted,

CÉLINE HERVIEUX-PAYETTE

Joint Chair

The Honourable Senator Hervieux-Payette, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gauthier, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Pearson tabled the following (Sessional Paper No. 2/36-195S):

THURSDAY, December 9, 1999

The Special Joint Committee of the Senate and the House of Commons on Child Custody and Access, which was empowered by the Senate on October 28, 1997 and by the House of Commons on November 18, 1997 to examine and analyze issues relating to parenting arrangements after separation and divorce, and in particular, to assess the need for a more child-centred approach to family law policies and practices that would emphasize parental responsibilities rather than parental rights and child-focused parenting arrangements based on children's needs and best interests, reports, pursuant to Rule 104, that the expenses incurred by the Committee during the First Session of the Thirty-sixth Parliament are as follows:

 

Professional and Other Services	$ 22,434.89
Transportation and Communications	65,373.44
All other Expenditures	4,685.50
Total	$ 92,493.83

An additional expenditure related to the work of the Committee, but paid from the budget of the Committees and Private Legislation Directorate, was incurred for witness expenses. This amount totalled $16,688.75.

During the session, the Committee held 55 meetings and heard from more than 500 witnesses.

The Committee presented its final report For the Sake of the Children in December 1998 with 48 recommendations.

Respectfully submitted,

LANDON PEARSON

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Kirby, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bryden, for the third reading of Bill C-6, An Act to support and promote electronic commerce by protecting personal information that is collected, used or disclosed in certain circumstances, by providing for the use of electronic means to communicate or record information or transactions and by amending the Canada Evidence Act, the Statutory Instruments Act and the Statute Revision Act, as amended,

And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Doody, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended in clause 7, on page 7:

(a) by deleting lines 16 to 22; and

(b) by renumbering paragraphs (h.1) and (h.2) as paragraphs (h) and (h.1), and any cross-references thereto accordingly.

After debate, The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Beaudoin, Berntson, Carney, Cochrane, Comeau, DeWare, Doody, Forrestall, Ghitter, Grimard, Gustafson, Johnson, Keon, Kinsella, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Meighen, Murray, Nolin, Rivest, Roberge, Roche, Rossiter, St. Germain, Simard, Tkachuk-29

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Bacon, Boudreau, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Joyal, Kenny, Kirby, Kroft, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mercier, Milne, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Perry (Poirier), Poulin, Poy, Robichaud , (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud , (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Ruck, Stollery, Taylor, Watt-43

ABSTENTIONS

The Honourable Senators

Prud'homme-1

The question then being put on the motion of the Honourable Senator Kirby, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bryden, for the third reading of Bill C-6, as amended, it was adopted.

The Bill, as amended, was then read the third time and passed.

Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate have passed this Bill, with certain amendments, to which they desire their concurrence.

Motions

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Kroft, seconded by the Honourable Senator Furey:

That the following Address be presented to Her Excellency the Governor General of Canada:

To Her Excellency the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson, Chancellor and Principal Companion of the Order of Canada, Chancellor and Commander of the Order of Military Merit, Governor General and Commander-in-Chief of Canada.

MAY IT PLEASE YOUR EXCELLENCY:

We, Her Majesty's most loyal and dutiful subjects, the Senate of Canada in Parliament assembled, beg leave to offer our humble thanks to Your Excellency for the gracious Speech which Your Excellency has addressed to both Houses of Parliament.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator LeBreton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator DeWare, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Order No. 2 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

OTHER BUSINESS

Senate Public Bills

Orders No. 1 to 9 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Ordered, That Order No. 1 be again called.

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Carstairs, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pépin, for the second reading of Bill S-2, An Act to facilitate the making of legitimate medical decisions regarding life-sustaining treatments and the controlling of pain.

After debate, Further debate on the motion was adjourned until the next sitting in the name of the Honourable Senator Lavoie-Roux.

Commons Public Bills

Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Reports of Committees

Consideration of the First Report of the Standing Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament (mandate of the Committee), presented in the Senate on December 8, 1999.

The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C. (L'Acadie-Acadia) moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C., that the Report be adopted.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Consideration of the First Report of the Standing Joint Committee on Official Languages (quorum), presented in the Senate on December 8, 1999.

The Honourable Senator Losier-Cool moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Corbin, that the Report be adopted.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Order No. 3 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Other

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Nolin, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cohen:

That a Special Committee of the Senate be appointed to reassess Canada's anti-drug legislation and policies, to carry out a broad consultation of the Canadian public to determine the specific needs of various regions of the country, where social problems associated with the trafficking and use of illegal drugs are more in evidence, to develop proposals to disseminate information about Canada's anti-drug policy and, finally, to make recommendations for an anti-drug strategy developed by and for Canadians under which all levels of government to work closely together to reduce the harm associated with the use of illegal drugs;

That, without being limited in its mandate by the following, the Committee be authorized to:

- review the federal government's policy on illegal drugs in Canada, its effectiveness, and the extent to which it is fairly enforced;

- develop a national harm reduction policy in order to lessen the negative impact of illegal drugs in Canada, and make recommendations regarding the enforcement of this policy, specifically the possibility of focusing on use and abuse of drugs as a social and health problem;

- study harm reduction models adopted by other countries and determine if there is a need to implement them wholly or partially in Canada;

- examine Canada's international role and obligations under United Nations conventions on narcotics and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and other related treaties in order to determine whether these treaties authorize it to take action other than laying criminal charges and imposing sentences at the international level;

- explore the effects of cannabis on health and examine whether alternative policy on cannabis would lead to increased harm in the short and long term;

- examine the possibility of the government using its regulatory power under the Contraventions Act as an additional means of implementing a harm reduction policy, as is done in other jurisdictions;

- examine any other issue respecting Canada's anti-drug policy that the Committee considers appropriate to the completion of its mandate.

That the Special Committee be composed of five Senators and that three members constitute a quorum;

That the Committee have the power to send for persons, papers and records, to examine witnesses, to report from time to time and to print such papers, briefs and evidence from day to day as may be ordered by the Committee;

That the briefs received and testimony heard during consideration of Bill C-8, An Act respecting the control of certain drugs, their precursors and other substances, by the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs during the Second Session of the Thirty-fifth Parliament be referred to the Committee;

That the Committee have the power to authorize television, radio and electronic broadcasting, as it deems appropriate, of any or all of its proceedings;

That the Committee be granted leave to sit when the Senate has been adjourned pursuant to subsection 95(2) of the Senate Rules; and

That the Committee submit its final report not later than three years from the date of its being constituted.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Hays moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Mercier, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Order was called to resume debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Beaudoin:

That it be an instruction to the Standing Senate Committee to which Bill C-6 will be referred: That they have the power to divide Bill C-6, An Act to support and promote electronic commerce by protecting personal information that is collected, used or disclosed in certain circumstances, by providing for the use of electronic means to communicate or record information or transactions and by amending the Canada Evidence Act, the Statutory Instruments Act and the Statute Revision Act, into two Bills; the first consisting of Part 1 and Schedule 1 with Titles and a coming into force clause and the second consisting of the remainder of the Bill and Schedules 2 and 3 with Titles; that any proceedings on the second Bill may stand postponed until after the consideration of the first Bill; that either Bill may be reported to the Senate as soon as it has been considered; and that, notwithstanding the usual practice, the Senate give this instruction at any time while the Bill is before the Senate, even after committee consideration of the Bill has commenced.

Ordered, That the Order be discharged and the motion withdrawn.

Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Wilson calling the attention of the Senate to religious freedom in China, in relation to the UN international covenants.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Poy moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Christensen, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Order No. 33 (motion) was called and postponed until the next sitting in the name of the Honourable Senator Stollery.

Orders No. 5 (motion) 8, 7, 6, and 2 (inquiries) were called and postponed until the next sitting.

INQUIRIES

Ordered, That, notwithstanding Rule 27(3), Inquiry No. 1, standing in the name of the Honourable Senator Gauthier, remain on the Notice Paper until Tuesday next, December 14, 1999.

The Honourable Senator Kinsella called the attention of the Senate to human rights and multi-ethnic conflicts.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Beaudoin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rivest, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

MOTIONS

The Honourable Senator Kirby moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Mercier:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology be authorized to examine and report upon the state of the health care system in Canada. In particular, the Committee shall be authorized to examine:

(a) The fundamental principles on which Canada's publicly funded health care system is based;

(b) The historical development of Canada's health care system;

(c) Publicly funded health care systems in foreign jurisdictions;

(d) The pressures on and constraints of Canada's health care system; and

(e) The role of the federal government in Canada's health care system;

That the Committee submit its final report no later than December 14, 2001; and

That the Committee be permitted, notwithstanding usual practices, to deposit any report with the Clerk of the Senate, if the Senate is not then sitting; and that the report be deemed to have been tabled in the Chamber.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Roberge, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

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With leave, The Senate reverted to Government Notices of Motions.

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Hays moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C.:

That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until Monday next, December 13, 1999, at 4:00 p.m.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

ADJOURNMENT

The Honourable Senator Hays moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C.:

That the Senate do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

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Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)

Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs

The name of the Honourable Senator Furey added to the membership (December 7).

The names of the Honourable Senators Christensen and Robichaud (Saint-Louis-de-Kent) substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Finnerty and Furey (December 8).

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